Live betting cancellation rules/badline?

[hazliam]

So what is within industry practice in this? (Not an open dispute, just wanted to discuss) How much can we dispute on a bad line? Because every book have, "final judgement is reserved for management."

Say you buy a line at +200, they say it is a badline. Odds shift to +1000 making your line much worst than when you brought it. Then it goes on and win and is cancelled. Is this a fair cancellation? Because they could have cancel it at +1000, when your line loss value, but only cancel it after you have +EV on your line.

Or duration of how long they leave the bad line. They cancel only after they determine the results. I.E. Freerolling you.

Do they have to show they cancel both side? If line A is bad, are they cancelling the opposite side bets?

When was the bad line place? Say you put a bet that just show up. Line is good. But they don't alter the odds and eventually the line becomes stale. They cancel all bets recorded at that price. But you place your bet when it was "good".

 

[Ace7550]

There's a lot of grey area here Hazliam. I find most top notch books do the right thing and I hardly ever get my bets cancelled. Did you have one cancelled recently that you thought was out of line?

 

[hazliam]

There's a lot of grey area here Hazliam. I find most top notch books do the right thing and I hardly ever get my bets cancelled. Did you have one cancelled recently that you thought was out of line?

I had a line get cancelled but they removed it quickly. But a year ago I had one cancelled that I thought was in line at BOL

 

[caramba]

So what is within industry practice in this? (Not an open dispute, just wanted to discuss) How much can we dispute on a bad line? Because every book have, "final judgement is reserved for management."

Say you buy a line at +200, they say it is a badline. Odds shift to +1000 making your line much worst than when you brought it. Then it goes on and win and is cancelled. Is this a fair cancellation? Because they could have cancel it at +1000, when your line loss value, but only cancel it after you have +EV on your line.

Or duration of how long they leave the bad line. They cancel only after they determine the results. I.E. Freerolling you.

Do they have to show they cancel both side? If line A is bad, are they cancelling the opposite side bets?

When was the bad line place? Say you put a bet that just show up. Line is good. But they don't alter the odds and eventually the line becomes stale. They cancel all bets recorded at that price. But you place your bet when it was "good".

All my comments are based on my experiences.

As said lots of grey areas and no industry practice. Much is decided by the trader who operated the market/accepted the bet in question.

They are slightly less likely to cancel bets that have gone on higher and then go on to win even if they were bad lines to begin with, but them being considered bad lines to begin will take preference. I would advice taking screenshots of the bet when odds were higher so you can play the "Well, why didn't you void when it looked like a sure loser" card but no guarantees.

Unfortunately they can get away with cancelling after the event.

I don't see how you can make them show they are cancelling both sides. Generally they won't, but on very rare occasion they will. If you are successful in your appeal of a voided bet they will often pay you and credit it as "goodwill" rather than regrade the bet, presumably so they don't have to regrade bets for those who didn't complain.

If the bet is good when you place it and becomes stale afterwards, this is something you can argue, but the difficulties can be getting someone to listen to you. I've had this happen and they did pay out eventually.

 

[Wagerallsports]

Any argument can be made that is was a 'bad line'

My theory is as long as the line is reasonable and not ridiculous, it should be honored

If a line is posted, you are offering it to someone.
If a is wager accepted, it's the equivalent to a handshake between two ppl when making a bet.

You don't break that handshake even if after the fact you realize it might have been a bad decision

Some may find this to be ridiculous, but we are players, and not our job to make sure someone is doing their job correctly.

Do you know what places like Walmart does if they have a price labeled wrong?

They Honor It and sell it to you for the price shown even if it's substantialy different

 

[Ace7550]

I've never had a bet cancelled after the conclusion has already been determined.
I've had quite a few cancelled before the game has started though.
My feeling is that 10-20% off market is still a valid line and should not be cancelled. Anything more than that is getting into grey area.
However, my opinion is that a bet should only be cancelled if the line is obviously an error. For example Djokovic is supposed to be a -500 favorite and is listed as a +350 dog because the lines got switched. People betting those kinds of lines are just taking shots and deserve to have their bets cancelled.

 

[caramba]

Any argument can be made that is was a 'bad line'

My theory is as long as the line is reasonable and not ridiculous, it should be honored

If a line is posted, you are offering it to someone.
If a is wager accepted, it's the equivalent to a handshake between two ppl when making a bet.

You don't break that handshake even if after the fact you realize it might have been a bad decision

Some may find this to be ridiculous, but we are players, and not our job to make sure someone is doing their job correctly.

Do you know what places like Walmart does if they have a price labeled wrong?

They Honor It and sell it to you for the price shown even if it's substantialy different

Unfortunately rules that apply elsewhere don't apply in the betting industry. Restaurants usually don't ban the fat customer who eats too much in their all you can eat buffet. They accept this type of customer who they lose money on because it's rare and because they will get bad press if they ban him. In the betting industry they can ban whoever they want and get away with it.
Btw, I don't want this to end up in a discussion about limiting players, because arguments can be made for that. Just mentioning it as an example that the betting industry is not like others.

 

[Ace7550]

Unfortunately rules that apply elsewhere don't apply in the betting industry. Restaurants usually don't ban the fat customer who eats too much in their all you can eat buffet. They accept this type of customer who they lose money on because it's rare and because they will get bad press if they ban him. In the betting industry they can ban whoever they want and get away with it.
Btw, I don't want this to end up in a discussion about limiting players, because arguments can be made for that. Just mentioning it as an example that the betting industry is not like others.

It's true. The sportsbook world is much shadier than most other industries.

 

[hazliam]

All my comments are based on my experiences.

As said lots of grey areas and no industry practice. Much is decided by the trader who operated the market/accepted the bet in question.

They are slightly less likely to cancel bets that have gone on higher and then go on to win even if they were bad lines to begin with, but them being considered bad lines to begin will take preference. I would advice taking screenshots of the bet when odds were higher so you can play the "Well, why didn't you void when it looked like a sure loser" card but no guarantees.

Unfortunately they can get away with cancelling after the event.

I don't see how you can make them show they are cancelling both sides. Generally they won't, but on very rare occasion they will. If you are successful in your appeal of a voided bet they will often pay you and credit it as "goodwill" rather than regrade the bet, presumably so they don't have to regrade bets for those who didn't complain.

If the bet is good when you place it and becomes stale afterwards, this is something you can argue, but the difficulties can be getting someone to listen to you. I've had this happen and they did pay out eventually.

Yeah the incident where my bet was cancelled, I wasn't even aware it was bad to take preemptive steps. I thought it was a normal bet.

I have place bets on bookmaker where the line was too good to be true and put a $1 counter bet, just to see what they do. They only void their bad line. The your bad line, they kept action. Manager eventually voided both lines.

 

[hazliam]

I've never had a bet cancelled after the conclusion has already been determined.
I've had quite a few cancelled before the game has started though.
My feeling is that 10-20% off market is still a valid line and should not be cancelled. Anything more than that is getting into grey area.
However, my opinion is that a bet should only be cancelled if the line is obviously an error. For example Djokovic is supposed to be a -500 favorite and is listed as a +350 dog because the lines got switched. People betting those kinds of lines are just taking shots and deserve to have their bets cancelled.

I know what you mean, I see line flip ones. They accidentally posted +1000/ -2000 on the wrong side. Or they give Tampa +14 points while they are up by +7 with the ball driving with -2 min left.

 

[BigJay]

Yeah the incident where my bet was cancelled, I wasn't even aware it was bad to take preemptive steps. I thought it was a normal bet.

I have place bets on bookmaker where the line was too good to be true and put a $1 counter bet, just to see what they do. They only void their bad line. The your bad line, they kept action. Manager eventually voided both lines.

the definition of getting Freerolled by a book

 

[caramba]

delete. wrong thread.