SmartLiveGaming voided bet hours after it was settled

Grassman20

New member
Hi BMR community,


I do have a complaint about the bookmaker Smartlivegaming.com

I have placed a bet with the following details:

Football / Finland / Suomen Cup 2015
Atlantis FC Edustus - EIF Ekenas 1X2, Full Time Excluding Overtime : For EIF Ekenas
Odds 3.05
Bet placed: 13.03.15 18:31
Event date: 14.03.15 18:30
Stake: 97€

I have won the bet and the bet was settled and displayed as won in my betting history in the Smartlivegaming website.

Now after that some time has passed and suddenly it was declared as voided because “of wrong odds”.

First I don’t think the odds were wrong. Second I think they cant void a bet that lately.

The T&C of them are saying und General rules:
2. SmartLiveGaming reserves the right to cancel any bet made on obviously "bad" odds, switched odds or a bet made after an event has started;

I want my winnings. How could you help me?
 

Trevrizent

New member
I know nothing about Finnish football, but with ten other bookmakers Ekenas were between 1.62 and 1.80 to win the match in normal time. I'm afraid that the odds of 3.05 which you took seem to have been well out of line, which is presumably why Smart Live Gaming have voided the bet (I agree, however, that they should have voided it much sooner). If you want to, you can make a complaint to BMR using the email address at the head of the list of Forum threads, but to be honest I don't think you have much of a case - sorry.
 

Grassman20

New member
Thank you Trevrizent for your information.
I also think so.
But surebetters should be warnnend!!!
Dont play bets at SmartLiveGaming if the odds are too good!!!
Exactly the same for Jetbull.com
 

Grassman20

New member
I really would like to know if there exist a site where bookmakers are reviewed in regard to surebetting.
That would be very helpfull!
 

Grassman20

New member
Well that wasnt the end of the story.
After I wrote a complain to the UK Gambling Commission they obviously decided to credit my winnings with the correct odds of 1.87.
Thats fair after all.
But first I was wondering why there was about 200€ missing in my account.
After long discusses on the support chat they recognized that one of my other won bets wasnt credited at all to my balance and second the winnings from the bet with the changed odds also werent added.
After a long story I got those 200€ to my account and I think thats fair.
So after all it was very demanding to play at SmartLiveCasino.
Lets hope I can withdraw my account balance without another interruption.
 

yourmum

New member
There are plenty of surebets to be found with trusted bookmakers, but as you're in germany I imagine you are limited due to tax laws etc.

I'm guessing you are new to sure betting as you made a classic mistake of thinking you found a bet with a big profit margin.

Most surebets will return on average between 2 and 5% you will of course find higher ones every now and again, but anything over 10% should be avoided.

Every bookmaker has palpable error terms, which means they can either void your bet or settle at the correct odds. It could cost you a lot of money if something is completely voided.

Also let's not forget - your accounts won't last very long either
 

Grassman20

New member
Yes thats true.
Surebets with odds about 5% are very critical in my opnion because they are often voided.
The tax in Germany is a big problem. Many bookmakers even dont allow German players.
I already have many bookmakers that limited or closed my accounts. But until now I did always get my money back. But I read that there are even bookmakers that close your account and forfeit your money if they suspect you to be a surebetter like bet7days.
 

Trevrizent

New member
Yes, if you are arbing/sure betting, then you need to be very careful indeed, because it only needs a bookmaker to void one winning bet and you can lose instantly all the money you have made from several successful arbs in the past.

Even if you are not arbing, taking odds which you know are way out of line can still be a road to nowhere. If you win, the bet is often voided, but if you lose, then it isn't. In other words, you can easily find yourself placing a 'no win' bet without knowing it at the time.
 

Grassman20

New member
Yes I always do check my bets before the match starts.
@yourmum: Some bookmakers dont account the 5% tax.
And even those bookie that deduct the 5% tax do sometimes have surebets that are good enough to be played, esspecially when the other part of the bet is a bookmaker without the 5% tax.
Surebetting isnt easy. There are many things that can go wrong.
But after all Im still winning more money than Im loosing.
At the moment I find it hard to make surebets because Im limited at most bookmakers. But with stakes of only 150€ or less you cant make profitable surebets. Its not worth it.
 

yourmum

New member
You're certainly not in the best location for it, you'll end up being tempted by dodgy and rogue bookies to make money, which could go horribly wrong.

I doubt you have access to any exchanges in germany as well so trading isn't option. As that would be the best thing to do next if you've built a decent balance from arbing
 

Grassman20

New member
I do have access to Smarkets and Matchbook and WBX. But WBX is stopping service now.
What exactly do you mean with trading exchanges?
Im glad for any tips.
 

Trevrizent

New member
Don't you have access to Betfair? I thought the federal government awarded them a German online betting licence last September (they were one of the twenty operators to be granted such a licence). I was never a fan of WBX, but I like Smarkets.
 

Grassman20

New member
As far as I know Betfair does not allow German players.
Is there a special trick with exchangers? What did yourmum mean?
 

Trevrizent

New member
I'm not 100% sure, but I think German players can now use Betfair again after the Bundesregierung granted Betfair an online betting licence last year.
 

Grassman20

New member
That would be really great.
At the moment Im trying to find out if they allow German players.
I did send them an email.
 

Grassman20

New member
News from SmartLiveGaming.
After they corrected my account balance they have now again deducted 84€ from my account balance without giving me a reason.
Thats so stupid.
I have sent them an email given them 3days to correct my account balance before I will take further steps.
There are only idiots working at SmartLiveGaming.
 

yourmum

New member
Grassman20 said:
<p>News from SmartLiveGaming.<br />
After they corrected my account balance they have now again deducted 84€ from my account balance without giving me a reason.<br />
Thats so stupid.<br />
I have sent them an email given them 3days to correct my account balance before I will take further steps.<br />
There are only idiots working at SmartLiveGaming.</p>

I have heard of this happening before to a friend of mine and it was sorted out within a few days. If you have screenshots or account history it will help although my friend had neither and it was still resolved. It happened after they did some maintenance / upgrades to their site. Smartlive are usually okay sorting out problems, but they can be bad with bonuses - especially when you have to email them to get it credited.

Anyway in regards to trading, I mean backing a selection and then laying a selection when the odds move in your favour. You could also lay and then back also.

It does involve risk - you won't win every trade but you can cut your losses to a a value you are comfortable with, and there isn't really a great deal of tips to give someone. You will find some good advice when you look around, but it's something you always learn as you go along.

There are lots of different trading types, but the 2 main ones are scalping and swing trading.

Scalping involves for example backing a selection at odds of say 7.8 and then laying off 1 tick down. So if you backed at 7.8 you would lay the next lower price which would be 7.6.

Your calculation would be similar to that of a back and lay arb or surebets.

Swing trading is similar but you are going for larger odds movements - most popular in play during events such as tennis.

If you have used an exchange before and know how they work, then do some research and Google it.

There's a few decent bits of software you can use to help, you will need a little bit of knowledge and practice to get the hang of the software though.

My personal opinion to start learning to trade is using football and is a method called lay the draw. You'll find loads about this through Google searches.

It basically involves laying the draw and trading out after a goal is scored but it isn't quite as simple as it sounds. You will need to research statistics of games / teams to find a potential trade, you will ideally want a game where there is an odds on favourite pre match (less than 2.00) and you don't want to start the trade if the lay odds are above 4.00 You will usually have to lay in play if the favourite is at home.

You can do this before a game starts or in play, but only if the game is still 0-0 in play.

If laying before the game, then search a stats site for the teams record such as goals scored in the first half, results between the two teams previously, whether the team usually scores first, defensive records etc...

For example - my hometown football team afc Bournemouth this season have scored first in every home game apart from one this season. So if the lay odds were at 4.00, you would lay he draw then cash out once the goal is scored.

You do need to prepare for losses however you stop this when it gets to evens, so you only lose the amount you put up to lay. So if you lay £25 @ 4.00 your liability would be £75. If there was no goal when the odds go down to 2.00 in play you would trade out for a loss of £25.

You do need research to do this if you lay before kick off as if the underdog scores first, then the draw odds shorten rather than drift.

You can do the same in play - its best to look at the inplay stats on bet365. If a game is 0-0 after about 25 / 30 minutes and the favourite has had quite a few shots on target and a few corners, then you can lay the draw on that match and wait for the goal and trade out.

Im a bit drunk at the moment and tried to roughly explain as well / easy as possible so you understand what I mean by trading and give an example.

Lay the draw is the most well known, and a good place to start if you wanted to look into it. It works so well because of the general statistics on draws, particularly the top leagues in Europe. The premier league for example averages over 2.5 goals per game and 40% of the games are draws at half time, of which just over 30% are 0-0. Less than 10% of all premier league games finish 0-0, so its easy to achieve a decent strike rate.

I personally start my trades in play rather than before kickoff, but now mainly concentrate on horse racing which is more difficult for a novice or new trader.

I have just tried to give you an overview / basic idea so don't jump in head first. Lay the draw trading I do believe is probably the best starting point to pick up trading.
I know I'll probably get slated or abused by some hardcore products trader for what I have written, but I was trying to be brief and make you understand what is meant by trading on exchanges / give you something to look for. I'm certainly not a professional, but it's enjoyable and does add some extra cash to my bank balance.

Oh - another important thing is liquidity - always make sure that enough money has already been traded (or matched as you'll see written on the market page) anything less than £50,000 will usually mean there are gaps between the back and lay odds which can hinder decent trades.

Hope this helps you understand what trading is. I'm not a professional, so do some research if you're interested.
 

yourmum

New member
Trevrizent said:
<p>I'm not 100% sure, but I think German players can now use Betfair again after the Bundesregierung granted Betfair an online betting licence last year.</p>

I bet their commission rate will be fucking well high. Have to incorporate a minimum of 5% on profits + the 5% Merkel gambling tax on top of that. Although at least the tax is going back into the Gambling industry - If I remember correctly the tax was introduced to go back into / help the german horse racing industry
 

Grassman20

New member
Thank you for your detailed answer.

The betfair support chat said I can use the bet exchange but I have got an email from them saying that Im not allowed to use it but Im allowed to use sportsbook??!!

Confusing.

A google search seems to confirm that Im not allowed.
 
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